In today’s episode, Taylor talks with guest Julia Seales delve into the themes of passion, work, and personal fulfillment. They discuss the importance of being compensated fairly for one's work and the pressure to monetize hobbies. They also explore the concept of making choices, focusing on one's own path, and being honest with oneself.
Mentioned In The Episode:
Meet Today's Guest:
Julia Seales is a writer and screenwriter based in Los Angeles. She earned an MFA in screenwriting from UCLA, and a BA in English from Vanderbilt University. She is a lifelong Anglophile with a passion for both murder mysteries and Jane Austen. Julia is originally from Kentucky, where she learned about manners (and bourbon). A Most Agreeable Murder is her debut novel, published with Random House, and available now. She hopes you will ask about it at your favorite local bookstore!
Taylor Morrison
You're listening to Inner Warmup. I'm your host, Taylor Elyse Morrison, founder and author of Inner Workout ICF, certified coach and fellow journeyer. In 2017, I set out to build a life that didn't burn me out. And I found my life's work in the process. On Inner Warmup, we talk about how self care and in our work show up in your relationships, your career, your schedule, in the conversations you have with yourself. We get practical, we get nuanced. And we're not afraid to challenge wellness as usual. So take a deep breath, and get curious. This is where your inner work begin.
Today, I'm chatting with Julia Seales. She's a writer and screenwriter based in LA. She got her MFA in screenwriting from UCLA, and her Bachelor's in English from Vanderbilt. You may have heard me mentioned my time at Vanderbilt on the podcast or in the book. And this Vandy connection is no coincidence. Julia was actually one of my college roommates. I vividly remember Julia telling me she wanted to be a professional writer. And she made it happen. Her debut novel, A Most Agreeable Murder, came out earlier this year. I'm so proud of her. And I'm so excited for you to listen into this conversation. So keep listening for Yes, a little bit of a mini reunion situation. But also a really candid conversation about how doing work you love can impact your hobbies, as well as some great book recommendations. Julia, I am really, really excited to be talking to you today.
Julia Seales
I am so excited to talk to you. I'm honored to be on the podcast. Thank you for having me.
Taylor Morrison
Folks already heard a little bit of background in the intro. It feels like a full circle moment before we were talking. I was just gushing about how you just finished reading your book. You're reading my book right now it feels Yeah, it feels really beautiful to see us like both getting to do things that we love. And that's kind of why I was interested in talking to you. I can vividly remember a couple of moments from when we were roommates in college. One moment that I remember is you probably know what book this was, but you have like a book of literary agents that you were querying.
Julia Seales
Yes, it's called Publishers Marketplace or Literary Marketplace. I still recommend that book to people when they're querying because they have a new edition every year. And it is really helpful. I mean, I queried hundreds of agents and I got rejected hundreds of times back in college. But it's a it was a great experience to do all of that even if I didn't end up finding an agent from it.
Taylor Morrison
Yeah, and at the time you were working on a completely different series and concept. But sureness at least it felt for me that like this was something that you wanted to do with your life to write and to tell stories. And it's happening. Your book is in the world and it was so delightful. Like, I can't really imagine there was another book I read this year where the author was trying to call it the book of the summer and I was like no, Julia's book is the book of the summer. This is the book that I needed for my summer. But something else that I know is true of you. And this is another memory I have is going to like a Jane Austen. I don't even like a ball kind of.
Julia Seales
Oh yes, yes. In college, one of my professors who, I love Jane Austen going into college, but her freshman year course on Pride and Prejudice is kind of what kept me at Vanderbilt because I was like I should transfer like I don't know what I'm doing. She was a member of the Jane Austen society, North America Middle Tennessee chapter actually, she still is and they had a Netherfield ball that they asked some of the students. So it was it was me and then two other students who were both really into Jane Austen. And the three of us tagged along and it was so fun. It was all of these like, older women and men like wearing gloves and costumes and doing little country dances. And it was so fun. I part of the reason I wanted to go is that I they would they're going to be serving white soup, which they talk about all the time in Jane Austen books, and I just was like, I want to know what it is and it is not good, but I wanted to try it.
Taylor Morrison
You have the experience. Now you know, when you reread it you're like, Okay, I get what white soup is now not your preference, but you know, and I guess what I was really curious to talk to you about and why I thought you would be perfect for this playdate series is you've known for a long time that you wanted to tell stories you wanted to write. I also know that you love reading. And so to ground the conversation to start, like, when did you realize that you loved reading? And what did that look like for you?
Julia Seales
Well, my mom is a reading specialist and so she actually studied how to teach reading. And she has always been a huge fan of books, obviously, that's what got her into literacy. And so I think just from a very early age, I got books given to me by my mom, because she, you know, has always been so passionate about that. So we always had so many books around the house, and she would really let me read anything I wanted. So I was always going to the library. I mean, there was a time when I would check out so many books from the library that the librarian tried to limit the number because they thought I was not actually reading all of them. But my mom had to have a conversation and be like she is reading all I know so it's hard to imagine a time when I didn't love reading because just from pretty much birth we are surrounded by books, but I do have several memories of specific books. I remember reading Junie B. Jones when I was probably four or five and being like, this is the funniest thing I've ever read. And I think it was always like the characters that really caught my attention and really stuck in my mind. So I I wanted to be every character that I fell in love it the mother was Madeline or Junie B Jones, or you know later like of course read Harry Potter like every millennial and preordered all of those. And so I think it and like A Series of Unfortunate Events, I can remember putting on my calendar, like when the next one would come out. So it's it's hard to really pinpoint on that love started. But I think it's really the characters from each book that stuck with me,
Taylor Morrison
Man, this feels like a throwback to so many pieces of my childhood. I was definitely a Madeleine. stan, I'm like can I go back and read those, do my parents still have, I remember having like a box set of madeleine. I'm sure it's in storage somewhere?
Julia Seales
Oh, yes. It's always so fun to go back and read those books when you have this like very long forgotten memory. And then you pull it out. Like, there is this book I was obsessed with when I was probably like three years old. And it's called the very worried walrus. And it's basically about a walrus who has anxiety. And my mom is like, yeah, looking back, I should have known you had a lot of anxiety. And that's why you loved that book. But no, the Madeleines books. I ended up having my appendix out in college. I think it was right before we were roommates. And my mom got a copy of Madeline and put glued pictures of me into it. Because as a kid, I always desperately wanted my appendix out because it was like, I want to be like battleline. And then as an adult, I was like, Well, it happened. I achieved it.
Taylor Morrison
You achieved it. Probably like the white soup, not quite what you imagined.
Julia Seales
Not as great as you imagine it. But you know what, you still have the experience
Taylor Morrison
You do. And speaking of experience, I feel like I remember for me in college, a big thing like I was so into Pinterest, there was a phase I think this was before I roomed with you, where I would like get up and I would spend a little time on Pinterest and I just loved like looking at all the quotes. I wrote my college essay on quotes. So I've always been really interested in like, how quotes are able to speak to what we're feeling across kind of across time, to quote like a Bible verse, like, there's nothing new under the sun, and a quote that got thrown around a lot, especially something that I thought about as I was, I guess, building my career was this idea of like, do what you love and the rest will follow. And everyone is just supposed to build a career around what they love, and it's supposed to be so great. And as someone who like, genuinely will pinch myself several times a month to be like I get paid to do this, like this is my life right now. It is really great to have work that you love. And also when you live that reality, at least I can speak from the eye when I live that reality. It can be difficult, like lines can get blurred between when you're working when you're not working. I can be guilty of just kind of working all the time or kind of not working all the time. And so to bring it back to reading specifically, I'm curious, how has your relationship to reading changed now that like you're all in you are you have done the thing you are a professional writer.
Julia Seales
First of all, I remember you were definitely into Pinterest when we're rooming together, I was still in that I remember you, being like, I there's this great pen of a dress, like what do you think, and always showing me some of my my relationship with reading now that I'm a professional writer, obviously, I still really, really love reading. And it's a hobby for me as even though it's, it's part of my job as well. Because now it's like, you know, I read a lot of research books for writing projects and terms of the screenwriting side of things, because I do both novels, and screenwriting. Sometimes I'll get asked to read a book, you know, to consider it for adaptation that happens sometimes. So it is part of my work. But I also do read for fun still. And I think it's interesting, because sometimes, it does take pleasure out of specific types of books for me, especially if it's a book that is like really, really good. Because sometimes it makes me feel guilty that I'm not working on my own projects. And sometimes it makes me feel like both inspired but also sad, if I'm like, I can't I don't write like that yet. And I wish I could. So even though I think it's really important to read books, where the writing is kind of like aspirational, it can still feel stressful if that is something that you do, because you're like, oh, like, I can't help comparing myself to it. But I think at the end of the day, it's like, it is something that I'm just so passionate about. And even having all of those mixed feelings like, there are still times when I pick up a book, and I just lose myself in it. And I think that's always, my goal is to be like, I forget that I'm even a writer too. And I'm just so absorbed in the story. To go back to something that you said about, you know, we get to do exactly what we want to do, which is so exciting. Like, especially just thinking back on all the conversations we used to have in college about our dreams. And it's so amazing to see, like we're both doing it. I think that can also be difficult in that something I say a lot is that passion isn't payment. And I think people often think that if you're really passionate about your work, that counts as some sort of payment, and it's okay for you to, for example, be paid less, because you love it so much. And I think what you learn when you're doing something for work that is your passion, is that even if you love it every single day, it still is the way that you're making your living, and you still need to be compensated fairly. Which even I think for me, that's a hard thing sometimes because I'm like, well, I'll just do this for free. I love it. Like I'll just do it. But it's like, no, like this is your job, you still need to consider that aspect of things.
Taylor Morrison
Well, I want to push into that a little bit. I didn't plan to ask you about this. But are you part of WGA? Like, are you on strike right now?
Julia Seales
Yes, I'm part of WGA. So I am on strike for screenwriting. So for novel writing, that is not part of the WGA. So I can work on any book projects. So I'm working on another book in the Most Agreeable Murder space. So that's very exciting. So I'm allowed to work on that I already have the contract with Random House. But in terms of any work on the screenwriting side, I'm on strike, so no working on that.
Taylor Morrison
Yeah. And I'm curious, what has experiencing a strike in that way? What has that taught you about like advocating for yourself and your work? And has it expanded your view at all of this idea of passion not being payment?
Julia Seales
Well, I feel very fortunate because I do have these novels, and that is my primary work. So you know, I feel I feel really blessed to have that because there are so many screenwriters who literally can't do any work right now. And it's it's just so hard. But, you know, obviously this is such an important issue. So I'm really respect that people are fighting for this and advocating for themselves. But I think one of the biggest things when the strike happened that struck me was that people were sharing their stories on Twitter about like, just having difficulties financially. And talking about, like, oh, I write for this extremely successful show, I literally went to the Emmys last night. And today I'm going to my day job, like as a barista because I literally cannot support myself. And I have had my fair share of financial difficulties and times when I'm like, Oh, I can't make ends meet, I gotta figure something out this month, even though, I feel like I do what I want. And I feel like oh, my goodness, like, you think it's all your own fault. And you think like, oh, I made a mistake. I didn't appropriately plan my finances. But I think one thing that really struck me when people were being so open and honest about that part of things was like, oh, maybe it's not fully my fault. And actually, like, there are a lot of times when I was working for free on that side of things. And I did do hours and hours of work for studios that didn't necessarily pay me for some parts of that, because, and, you know, it's nothing against an individual at all, it's literally the way the industry is set up. So I'm not blaming any individual for that. It's just kind of expected and we all accept it and don't question it. And I think now that people are having these conversations we are, people are able to be like, Oh, this, this isn't right, you shouldn't be expected to work for free. And why did we think that was normal?
Taylor Morrison
Yeah. A question that I posed on Inner Warmup before that I find myself returning too often is, is it the self? Or is it the system, and I'm hearing that play out in what you're sharing where there are these systemic realities, where I mean, it makes me personally so angry, to see, and I'm, I'm not even going to try and do the numbers off the top of my head. But like, it's a marginal percentage of the overall revenue of these studios that like writers are asking for, that's like, clearly a systemic issue where people at the top want to make more money. And they're not valuing writers. And also, there are some elements where it's like, the individual, the self, where we can advocate for ourselves. And that's what a strike is, is multiple individuals coming together and like having that collective bargaining power. But I can also think of myself, in a lot of instances where I'm like, I'm just so lucky to have this opportunity. And to your point before, like, this would be so easy for me to do, or this would be so fun for me to do. So, of course, I don't need to ask to get paid for my time in a way that is like a reciprocal exchange, because I should just be so grateful to have this opportunity. And that's where like, I need to deal with my own stuff. So there's that mix, there's always not always, but in a lot of instances, there's both systemic, and kind of personal individual realities that get intertwined.
Julia Seales
Yes, I definitely think that's true. And I think that in terms of just feeling so grateful, it's like, I think you absolutely can have both of those things be true and be like, I'm so grateful to do this. I love it. But I also want to be paid fairly. And I feel like it's somehow been so hard for us to all wrap our minds around that. But it's like, just because for example, someone who's a doctor absolutely loves being a doctor and loves what they do. We don't expect them to like, get paid less for doing surgeries because they love doing surgeries. It's like that's just your personal feeling. And it shouldn't really factor into your payment.
Taylor Morrison
Yeah, like you put it in any other context besides, a creative context or an entrepreneurial context. And it's like, oh, that actually makes zero sense. And sometimes you got to take it out of the, like decontextualize it and recontextualize it to realize how ridiculous that is. And on a similar, but like slight left turn lane. Something when I reached out to you to ask you to be on this that I think is related. Like, I personally am dealing with a lot of unlearning, that work has to be really hard. And I feel like I need to write up somewhere like passion is not payment. Like I can be passionate about something and still get paid adequately for this. Something else that I've seen, and you mentioned this to me as well is that the flip side of that coin is that we try to make like everything work. And it's like oh you enjoy something. You have to you monetize that you have to make it a side hustle, you have to try and make that your career. And I know you have feelings on this. So I'm just gonna step back and let you share some of those feelings if you'd like.
Julia Seales
Yes, we talked about this a little bit, because we were talking about how much I love reading. And I was telling you that my other big hobby is sewing. And one of the things I really love about sewing is that it's, it is so different from writing, it's like, I saw a lot of costumes and clothes, and it's like, you do one step, then you're done next step, then you're done. And whereas writing, it's sort of always going on, I mean, it is hard for me to not work because I'm always thinking about the projects, thinking about the characters. But with some of my other hobbies, like sewing, I'm very type A, so whatever I do, I like to try to do it really well. And I have made a lot of costumes for my friends for things. Like for example, I had a T that was themed, like my book, which I was like, you know, this was my diva moment, and I'm going to do it. And I sewed all of my guests regency era costumes. And people always tell me, oh, you should sell these, you should sell this on Etsy, you should do this as a business. And I just feel like, that's always our first thought, especially in this country, like, Oh, you're good at something, you should do that as work. And it's so different when you're doing something just for fun and for yourself versus for work. And it doesn't necessarily take the joy out of it. Like with writing, for example, right now, the second book that I'm working on for Random House, I am getting paid to do it, but I absolutely love it, and I'm having a blast. But I do think there are elements, when you are doing something for work of other people having a say or like, you know, if you're selling something you have a customer to contend with. That just it changes it in a way that I think people don't always realize. And it's like, it's okay to just do something for the sake of doing it and not get paid for it and be like, I'm just in charge of this, I'm answering to no one. And it's just for fun. And I've had friends, like I had a friend who loved baking. And he ended up well, he still loves baking, but he end up kind of doing a little business with it. And I think like, I could just really see a shift when he started selling his baked goods as opposed to just making whatever he wanted for fun. Like it does change things. And it's okay to be like, I'm just doing this, and I'll pick it up and put it down. And money's not involved. Customers aren't involved.
Taylor Morrison
So I guess I'm curious about how you made that decision for yourself. So like, for you writing and the reading element of it, it was worth it for you to like have that be your career? Or have that be something that's monetized knowing that that might affect your enjoyment of reading sometimes, but then for sewing, it was like, that's a hard no, that's just going to be for me, and like giving it to people I love. So how did you make that decision?
Julia Seales
Well, I think part of it is just considering what I was best at. So I did feel like writing was something that not only was I passionate about, I also felt like Okay, I think that I could study and work and get to the level of doing this professionally. And, you know, maybe with sewing Oh, I'm not good. But I think at a certain point, you also have to be honest with how much time you have in the day. I think if you're putting pressure on yourself to do everything in your life professionally at a professional level. It's like, you know, people always say the thing about oh, you have to put in 10,000 hours to be a master at something. But I think that is a good thought in terms of you have to put in a lot of work towards being good at something and natural talent, you know, as part of it, but you have to work and you can't do that with every single thing, a certain point, you have to make a choice. And so it's not just about like, oh, I wouldn't want to do this. Like I'm sure it would be incredible to be like a professional seamstress. But I don't have time to do that and be a professional writer and be professional at all the other things I like it's just as simple as being like I made a choice and the things that I didn't choose. I still have that passion so I could do those as a hobby. Do that for fun. But yeah, it's it's just not enough hours in the day.
Taylor Morrison
Yeah, I was talking to my friend Amelia, who's also my business partner in the Lifestyle Business League about this and I was telling her I'm kind of in this like before real season, where I'm just like, I have to be honest with myself. have exactly what you were saying, I need to be honest about myself what I'm good at what I want, what I like what I don't like. And as we're recording this, I'm on like a six week break from Instagram. And it's so interesting to like, watch my energy kind of come back to myself as I'm not seeing what everyone else is doing and what I pulled unquote and supposed to be doing. I'm just like, oh, yeah, this is how I would naturally act, if I wasn't constantly aware of what was trendy, or what other people were doing. So that honesty is so so important.
Julia Seales
That's such a good thing to think about. Because I do think we're so bombarded by what everyone else is doing. And especially I feel like as women, we're constantly forced to compare ourselves to other women. And I think forced to believe or told the lie that like, oh, there's only room for a certain amount of you all, and it's like, just just not true. Like, even back to what I was saying, when I think a lot of people feel this sense of competition, and that when they read something or watch something they think is incredible. They might feel like angry that they didn't make it or that pressure, but it's like, there is room for everyone to be doing this, like, you know, even what you said about like the book of the summer, it's like, hopefully, people reading lots of books of the summer. And like I want to have I mean, I've had a great time reading a ton of books this summer. And I've loved like many of them. So it's kind of that idea that there's room for lots of us. So we don't need to be as worried about what everyone else is doing, which is easier said than done.
Taylor Morrison
Yeah, it's one of those things that's like, yes, that is exactly what I needed to hear. And I probably need to like, take that little snippet and make it a ringtone for me to just remind myself all the time, like, yes, there's more than enough for everyone. I want to bring it back to reading as we wind down our conversation. And I want to get your takes on books because to quote, this is something that I saw last, who's the host of balance black girls say that I just hadn't thought of this before. Because I grew up with a mom whose first career was as an English teacher. So kind of similar to you. I was just always reading some of my earliest memories are reading and writing. And less was like reading is such a great starter hobby. And I was like, Oh, I guess I never thought of reading as a hobby. But for people who are like, looking for a way to spend their time that isn't in front of a screen and isn't like working all the time. Reading is a great place to start. And I I know you've got some opinions on books. So I want to end with three quick questions for you. Yes, first one, what's a book that you think is overrated. And this is just your opinion?
Julia Seales
I thought about this, because you mentioned we were going to talk about this. And I have an Agatha Christie version of my responses. And I have a Jane Austen version of marriage. It's given both. And I picked those two authors, because they're two of my favorites. And my book is very much inspired by these two authors. So I did a little kind of both. So in terms of a book, I think is overrated. This is a book that I think a lot of people have to read in school, and it should be replaced by a Jane Austen novel, in my opinion, and that book is Lord of the Flies. I think totally is overrated. I think it's kind of boring. I remember reading it in school and being like, Okay, well, that was a book. I don't feel like it really had any themes I related to as a teenage girl. I would replace it with Emma by Jane Austen. So that's my take on Lord of the Flies. In terms of an overrated book on the Agatha Christie side, I'm going to say the book Halloween party, which is the basis for the upcoming movie, a haunting in Venice. I recently saw the trailer for this movie. And first of all, when I read Agatha Christie as a kid, one thing I loved about Paul row was how he was very funny and silly. And these movies are not like that. So already very different from how I pictured poro so I have kind of a grudge because of that. But this movie trailer seems so different from the book, which is a bizarre choice for the basis of the next poro movie, in my opinion. Because first of all in Halloween party, and don't listen to this part if you don't want like minor spoilers, but a child dies, which I already I don't like it when children die in any sort of murder mystery. I just don't like it or I don't want to read about a kid in danger. But throughout the entire book, all of the characters keep saying well, she was really annoying. She was such a nasty little girl. So this book is completely just so If I need to read from a modern perspective, because you're like, but she was just again. So I would say I think there are a lot of other Agatha Christie books, that would have been a really interesting basis for the third movie and they would not have chosen that one.
Taylor Morrison
Awesome. Okay, next question. What's a book that you feel like is appropriately rated?
Julia Seales
So I think that the hype around Pride and Prejudice is real. I think Pride and Prejudice is a complete masterpiece. It is my favorite Jane Austen. And even though it's it's cliche, but it's, I mean, it has romance, it has wit has social commentary has humor, it has withstood the test of time. It's great for adaptation. I just think it's a book that everyone should read at least once in their lifetime. And then in terms of Agatha Christie, I think that the murder of Roger Ackroyd is also a masterpiece. It's an incredibly crafted mystery. Agatha Christie is really, I mean, there's a reason people call her the queen of mystery. I think she just had such a gift for tricking the reader. But when you look back all the clues were there, which I think is the best way to write a mystery. And I wish they would have done that that one for the next movie, because I think it would have been fantastic.
Taylor Morrison
Well, maybe the WGA strike will end and you'll get to do an adaptation of an Agatha Christie.
Julia Seales
Oh, what a dream.
Taylor Morrison
Yeah, I would love putting that into the ether. Okay, last one, an underrated book that you feel like everyone should read?
Julia Seales
Yes. So if you like the murder of Roger Ackroyd, on the Agatha Christie side, she has a book called Endless Night. That is a standalone. So also if you like and then there were none one of her most famous works, which is a standalone, it doesn't have a detective in it. It's just a mystery. You can read it. Say you're looking for a starter hobby want to pick up a book, that would be a great one. It's not that long, the audiobooks also great. So I would recommend that one. That one's I think is not quite as well known as some of her others like Murder on the Orient Express. And Then There Were None. Those are, you know, her most popular but I would say Endless Night. On the Jane Austen side. There's this British author. I think she's more widely known in the UK, as opposed to here. So this is she's an author who is I think underrated here in the US. And her name is Barbara Pym. Py M. She has this book called excellent women that I would recommend for people who like Jane Austen, it's a postwar setting. And it's very much the type of social commentary that you're going to find in Jane Austen. Very, very, if you're just talking about the plot of it, very, very boring, very, very drive. But it's so funny because it's all about just those little complexities that people notice about their neighbors, and the funniness of being a woman. So I would recommend all of Barbara PIMS books, but that one in particular is my favorite.
Taylor Morrison
Yay, I feel like you should just make a podcast talking about your takes on books and movies. I would definitely be your first subscriber for that I loved hearing your input, and I'm like, okay, these are books that I want to listen to you and read but also my mom, we were just talking about this. I don't even know if mom listens to the podcast. But if you are Hi, mom. She was just telling me she's like reading used to be something I did all the time. And just as I've gotten older, I do it less and less and she loves Jane Austen. So I'm also going to be like, Hey, Mom, Julia said that these bugs are good. If you like Jane Austen. Well, lovely. I could talk to you literally all day. So where can people I've already been chatting out your book this whole time. I will definitely link that in the show notes. It genuinely is a delight. That's I'm sure I need to choose another adjective because I feel like when I texted you, I called it a delight. Whenever I've talked to people about it, I say delight. There are other words to describe it. It is funny, it is witty, it is imaginative. It is insightful.
Julia Seales
Thank you. That is that is really, really kind. It means so much to me. And I feel like we knew each other at such a fun time where we both have these big dreams and it's just so exciting talking to you to feel like we did it. I can't get over it
Taylor Morrison
Neither can I. So where can people connect with you, besides the book obviously?
Julia Seales
Yes. So I'm on Instagram at Julia Mae Seales. That's my username everywhere. So wherever I'm on TikTok. I post once in a while videos of my dog, but I mostly Instagram is where I'll be
Taylor Morrison
Lovely. Well, thank you again so much Julia for being on the show.
Julia Seales
Thank you so much for having me. It was such a pleasure.
Taylor Morrison
Inner Warmup is a collaborative effort. It's hosted by me Taylor Elyse Morrison. Produced by Jennie Kerns and edited by Carolina Duque if you enjoyed this episode, share it with a friend. And if you're looking to continue your inner work, our free take care assessment is a great place to start. On that note, take care.
