In today’s episode, Taylor is joined by guest Dixie St. John to talk about all things coaching. They delve into the distinctions between coaching and therapy, the ethical considerations of coaching, choosing the best coach, maximizing the coaching experience, and budget-friendly coaching options. Taylor and Dixie also share their personal experiences and tips for those seeking coaching. Tune in to gain valuable advice, whether you’re considering or already engaged in a coaching relationship.
Mentioned in Episode:
Meet today’s guest:
Dixie St. John is a Master Certified Coach, Equus Coach and Master Facilitator, writer, social justice advocate, truth-teller, HSP, story-whisperer, and witness. In addition to her private coaching practice, she is an Instructor, Certification Mentor, and Trainee Coordinator for Martha Beck's Wayfinder Life Coach Training program. Dixie's passion is supporting her coaching clients as they navigate the liminal space following loss and transition. With an educational background in Thanatology (the study of Death and Dying), Dixie has extensive experience providing end-of-life support - both for the dying process and the grief thereafter. Dixie is based in Frederick, Maryland where she spends time with her four Persian kitties, reading, having deep conversations, questioning the status quo, and strong coffee with real cream.
Connect with Dixie St. John:
Taylor Elyse Morrison
You're listening to Inner Warmup. I'm your host, Taylor Elyse Morrison, Founder and Author of Inner Workout, ICF certified coach, and fellow journeyer. In 2017, I set out to build a life that didn't burn me out, and I found my life's work in the process. On Inner Warmup, we talk about how self care and inner work show up in your relationships, your career, your schedule, and then the conversations you have with yourself. We get practical, we get nuance, and we're not afraid to challenge wellness as usual. So take a deep breath and get curious. This is where your inner work begins. Today's guest is Dixie St. John.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
Dixie is a Master Certified Coach, an Equus Coach, and a Master Facilitator. In addition to her private coaching practice, She's an instructor, certification mentor, and trainee coordinator for Martha Beck's Wayfinder Life Coach Training Program. That's the program that I went through, and she actually was my mentor coach. Dixie's passion is supporting her coaching clients as they navigate the liminal space following loss in transition. Some of our other coaching specialties include establishing and maintaining boundaries and self empowerment for introverts, which is actually something that she helped me with when we were going through our mentor coaching. This conversation that you're about to hear is so rich. I know coaching is a hot topic on social media these days, and it's something that a lot of people are skeptical about. If you're skeptical about coaching or been burned by a coach in the past, if you're coaching curious, if you're a coach yourself, this episode is for all of you.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
We talk about the difference between coaching and therapy, what makes an effective and ethical coach? how to choose the best coach for you, how to get the most out of coaching, and what to do if coaching just isn't in the budget right now. We cover a lot as you just heard, so keep listening. Well, Dixie, thank you so much for being on the show.
Dixie St. John
Oh my gosh. You're so welcome, Taylor. It's such a pleasure.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
So we first got introduced to each other because when I was going through my coach certification, you were my certifying coach and kind of the mentor who helped me through it. And I remember being really excited to get matched with you because in getting to see you through training. I think you hopped in and taught a couple of our sessions. It was just so clear that not only did you have a passion for coaching, but you just have, like, a wealth of knowledge and lived experience when it comes to coaching. So before I ask you a million questions. Let's just start by hearing what got you started with the practice of coaching.
Dixie St. John
Well, first of all, thank you for that. That was really sweet. I always wanna know, like, why folks wanna be paired with me. So that makes me happy to know that there was a resonance there. So I went through coach training and started coaching in 2008. So indeed, that was light years ago in terms of certain things, in terms of even social media, in terms of how people were trained. And you're right. People did not - they did not know.
Dixie St. John
They weren't familiar. Life coach wasn't part of the vernacular of, you know, our culture whatsoever. And so I have a background in sub-set of psychology, which is called Thanatology, which is the study of death and dying, and I was working in that field. And primarily my skills were in kind of a therapy kind of space, but I knew I didn't wanna be a therapist. There were a lot of different barriers there that I just did not feel like jumping over hoops and whatever, and I didn't - I know I wanted to meet people in a different way. Actually, the owner or whatever of the group that I went through training, her name's Dr Martha Beck, And she was on Oprah at that point. She was Oprah's life coach. And she actually was, I believe, the first person to really coin that term or she was known as a Life coach.
Dixie St. John
And I watched her on TV. I started to read some of her books. I really liked her message and I liked her - how she showed up. And so I started to investigate. She also wrote for Oprah Magazine at that point. And I started to, you know, look into her and saw that she actually had this program. Still didn't totally know what coaching was, but I know I was drawn toward it. And so I signed up.
Dixie St. John
At that point, we had very small groups. I was the first class that was actually taught over the course of multiple months. Prior to that, they were just training folks, small groups of folks, maybe over a weekend. But I knew that there was something about coaching that was going to - there was something I was - I wanted more of. I wanted to be able to help people to be able to move past the things that were keeping them from not living what we call their essential selves are living into their essential stuff.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
I think that was a great introduction, Dixie and it's so interesting because - so I also went through Martha Beck's programming. That's how we were introduced. And I also was really drawn to Martha's work. And, also, I hadn't heard of her before I went through the training. So I actually heard of the program because someone had posted about something on LinkedIn, and then I started reading her books. And at that point, I was writing my book and it was so, I think Martha actually mentions this in some of her work of where it feels like you're kind of dipping into the same well. And she was talking about concepts or or things that she was exploring through her own words and experiences that were really similar to the things that I had come to on my own.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
And so I knew that I wanted to get into coaching. Especially, I work with a lot of organizations, and they value someone having coach training even though I had experienced coaching in my college major. So I knew that I wanted to do coaching, but I also knew that, like, I-I'd had enough experience of the, like, very corporate straightforward coaching. And so I wanted an experience of coaching that was holistic and looked at the whole person. So it sounds like we were drawn for similar reasons. There is this, like magnetism, this desire to support people in their journey, and we came at different points in Martha's journey too, because she still, I think, does things with Oprah. While I was through the training, she had been like an Oprah selected book. But I heard about the training first and then heard about Martha, and you are the opposite.
Dixie St. John
Absolutely. So it's so cool because, yes, there's an evolution, but yet that resonance, right, that we had just different points in time. I mean, this was 15 years ago when I started coaching. But it still feels the same to me. I mean, it still lights me up. It's still for the same reasons. That - just like you said, the holistic, being able to work with people from a holistic perspective and meeting them where they are is so important.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
Yeah. And we've mentioned the word coaching a ton of times right now, so I do wanna ground ourselves in what coaching is. And also something that we talked about a lot in the program of, like, what is the difference between coaching and therapy. I think it's easy to equate the two because in both, you're talking to another person often in a one-on-one setting. So, what does coaching mean to you, Dixie, and how would you differentiate those two practices?
Dixie St. John
So because I come from kind of a therapy background. I was never a licensed therapist, but I learned in kind of a therapy way. There is an overlap. There's similarities. Lots of times, I'll have clients who are simultaneously in therapy and coming to coaching with me or working with me in coaching. But the difference how I would look at the difference and, again, there it's kinda like a continuum. There's some overlap And then there's, you know, depending upon what your coaching niche is, it could be further from therapy than other, you know, types of niches. But here's how I look at it.
Dixie St. John
So first of all, a therapist is going to be working with folks who typically are - they might not be functional. There might even be some pathology that they're working with there. Not always, but they will go into those types of things. They might even be working with folks around trauma. So they're trying to build them, pull them up to a point of functionality. A coach takes someone who is functional. And again, they might be working with a therapist because there's parts of their lives where they need that support, but for the coaching purposes, they're functional, and we bring them to more optimal, into a space that is where they're flourishing or that's what the hope would be. Another way of looking at it is: It's kind of like a therapist would be more like a physician in that possibly there would be with a physician, there might be injuries or disease of some sort they'd be helping that person heal from.
Dixie St. John
A coach is more like a physical trainer in the sense that, yes, people might have some pre-existing things that are going on. They're gonna come there to build themselves up and, you know, maybe build their muscles or or support their body in different ways. Therapists are often going to be looking to their clients' past as both a reason for what's going on in their life and also as a way to heal from that. Whereas a coach, we take people, we meet them where they are right now in the present, and we work toward the future. So while we might know and our client might talk with us about, okay, here's what I think might have started all of this. We're not gonna be asking questions about that. We're actually gonna be saying okay, so how is this impeding you now? You know, what's the obstacle now and how can we work on it in a period of time? That makes sense.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
Yeah. Those are also helpful. The one about the therapist is to a physician as a coach is to a personal trainer. That one always stood out to me. And I echo what you say in a lot of my, like, private practice of work. People are also working with a therapist on different things, and we - they'll have it all the time in conversation where they'll say, you know what? I am noticing that, and that seems like something to talk about with my therapist and will continue down this different line of conversation. And I think that's really healthy. This whole season is about building a self-care support system.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
And so it's not either or, either I work with a therapist or coach. It's often that you're working with both depending on the season that you're in and your goals and the support that you need.
Dixie St. John
Absolutely. The other thing is-is based on you know, you said the season. Now maybe you're talking about the season of your show.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
I meant season of life, but yeah.
Dixie St. John
I thought so. But the season of life is that I will often have clients who I will work with, and then we'll take a break. And they will integrate the work that we do together, and then they'll come back to me at a different season of life. Or we'll circle back and we'll do a check-in, and then they might have something else that they're feeling stuck around, and we'll work with that. So it's very versatile, and it also is very complimentary to therapy.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
And you mentioned something that I think could be helpful for us to dig into. How do you know when it's a good time for you to work with a coach? Like, how do you know that you're in a season or a point in your life where having the support of a coach would be useful?
Dixie St. John
So, generally speaking, remember now, we're because we're focusing on the present. Right? If you're in a space in your life and there's something that you want to do or you want to become or you want to make a shift in, and you're finding yourself stuck. That tends to be where, again, depending upon your coaching niche, where people are going to come to coaching. That's a good time to start thinking, well, maybe a coach could help me. It's so - it's a stuckness or what's next based upon again upon the season. Right? Where we talk about the cycle of change in our training. I think you remember that, the change cycle. There's different seasons and different places a person might come to coaching for around and for.
Dixie St. John
But it's the season of where you are, but what's next? Right? You could be in a space where you notice that you just you're wanting to grow. You're wanting to expand, and coaching can help with that as well.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
Those are two really great points. So if you're feeling stuck and you're noticing, okay, I'm trying to do it on my own, which I will highlight for Inner Warmup listeners. So often what I see in the Inner Workout Community is people who have been trying to muscle through things themselves. And working with a coach, it's all of a sudden, like, oh, I have the support accountability that I need in order to grow. And I love that what's next as well too. What is the next part of me that I want to explore? What's the next thing I want to achieve? What's something that I want to embody in this season of my life? So those are two great markers for us. Let's get more specific in the process of finding a coach.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
I will say - I will try not to be on my soapbox for too long with this, but coaching is a field where as it stands right now, anyone can call themselves a coach. And a lot of what I see people saying is coaching is really more consulting. It's telling you what to do. It's trying to fit you into a very specific formula. And I think, unfortunately, that discredits the practice of coaching. It also is really confusing. Like, I have worked with coaches in the past too, and it can be confusing to know who to trust when anyone can just decide, oh, hey. I'm a coach today.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
So I would love to get some of your wisdom in how we can choose coaches. So where do I wanna start with this? I guess, from your perspective, what's the value of working with a coach who's been through some type of training or certification or accreditation, or do you think there's value? Maybe you're like, you know what? That isn't that important.
Dixie St. John
Oh, I do think there's value. First of all, you and I have both been through a rigorous training and certification process. Right? I don't know if you're accredited or not through, like, the National Coaching Federation.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
Yeah. I am. I am.
Dixie St. John
Well, congratulations. Absolutely. Like you mentioned, Taylor, and I have a soapbox about this as well, but anybody can hang a shingle or tout that they are coaches. Right? And that can mean so many things. And it waters down the industry. It is like you say, it becomes confusing for people to know what to expect from a coach. So I absolutely believe that going through a highly regarded coaching program, one that you've researched, ideally one that has a process even more ideally that something is accredited by, say, the International Coaching Federation or a governing body like that. Because not only are you going to learn modalities and tools, you're also gonna be mentored through a certification process of how to use those tools, How to show up for your client, and meet them where they are.
Dixie St. John
But again, if you're in a program that's accredited, you're gonna have a code of ethics that you're going to be held to. In order to get the credential from, say, the International Coaching Federation. You have to agree, you have to attest that you're gonna be following ethical guidelines for your coaching practice. The other thing I wanted to mention is, yes, it's all over the place, right, in terms of what coaching is and what it isn't. We like to look and ICF actually, they govern and credential folks through what they call Transformative Coaching. So that's when we are working with folks from the inside out. We're looking for what inside of you needs to shift, but also we believe as coaches that you already have your own answers, versus what's called Transactional Coaching, where that might be more like, okay, here's what you need to do and let me give you, like you say, consulting or advice.
Dixie St. John
That's not what we subscribe to. So to answer your question, it's a long way of answering it, but I absolutely believe in coach training, coach certification and also accreditation and credentialing.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
Yeah. That piece about the ethics is really important. It's something I'm constantly thinking about when I'm working with clients. Part of what we were talking about in the coaching versus therapy conversation is, if you are an ICF credentialed or accredited coach, like, we have an obligation to say, you know what? This is going beyond the bounds of coaching, and we need to recommend that you work with someone else. And if you're not working with someone who's bound by that, they might start to go beyond their skills and ability. And I don't wanna say that they're doing this in an evil way. It's so often out of this desire to help. But sometimes the best way that we as coaches can help is by saying, you know what? This is beyond what we're able to do. And not to say that coaches wouldn't do that if they're not bound by these ethics, but certainly having a code of ethics that you have to live up to gives you that extra dose of accountability.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
And I've never thought of the transformative versus transactional coaching. I'm sure I've heard that terminology before, but that just really sparked something for me. I will also say that is the thing that for people I've been doing a fair amount of corporate coaching lately. And the term coaching in corporate so often, again, is like, I'm gonna coach you, which means I'm gonna give you feedback and tell you what you should be doing. So then they come and meet with me as a coach, and they expect me to just tell them the answers. And so I've really had to, I need to start using that language transformative versus transactional, but to let them know, like, I am here to help you find your own answers. Yes, sometimes I might ask if I can take my coach hat off and give you some additional context, but primarily it's about you and asking you questions that can help you come to your own answers.
Dixie St. John
Absolutely. Absolutely. We talk about one of the principles in Martha Beck Coach Training. Our core principles of our company is Coaching is subtractive, not additive. So we're actually helping our client remove obstacles by asking powerful questions that we believe they know the answers to. We're not adding something to the mix, we're not, like, giving them advice. We're not saying, oh, let me tell you what I think you should do or let me share with you what I've done, You know, and again, there like you say, there are times when there might be a bit of that, but we distinguish when that's happening. But for the most part, it's going to be helping the client feel into what's right for them.
Dixie St. John
Not giving them something to add on. It's taking away.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
Lovely. So I'm curious for you, Dixie, as someone who not only went through coach training, but then had to do additional training to evaluate other coaches. What are the skill sets that you find yourself trying to develop in your trainees? I ask this question because these are probably also the skill sets that we want to be looking out for as we're evaluating whether or not a coach is a great fit for us.
Dixie St. John
So even though we have in our coach training program, we have - we teach you coaching tools and we teach, you know, the structure of the coaching session, What I find myself spending the most time on and what I feel is the most important, first of all, is well, two things. For my mentee To gain confidence in their coaching. To gain confidence in showing up as, first of all, the type of person they are. Right? Whether that's how they coach, who they coach, how they market their practice, wanting them to be unique and in their integrity. That's super important because I noticed so many mentees are so worried that they're going to not fit into what they consider a “good coach” or I'm putting air quotes here. Or just the cookie cutter that they're noticing, maybe even on social media. What think they're supposed to do or how they're supposed to show up. So I do a lot of work with them around that.
Dixie St. John
The other thing is presence, developing presence with their client. And again, that goes along with self confidence and being confident in yourself, but being able to hold space for your client In a way that's nonjudgmental, but then also doesn't have an agenda for the client. So that we're not coming into a session thinking that we have to have some kind of transformation for them or we know what's best for them Or there's some kinda outcome that we have to achieve in order to be a good coach. So I work with them a lot around that. Holding space. And what I mean by that is Being okay with wherever the client is. We're there to be a container for the client's experience. We're not there to change that unless they wanna have it changed.
Dixie St. John
And then they are going to do the work around that.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
It makes so much sense. And that not having an agenda is something I'm always reminding myself of because I can hear something, especially when I've been working with a client for a while, I'm like, oh, I really want them to make this progress right now, or I want them to make this shift, or, oh, if they could just see this thing. But instead of jumping ahead, wanting to meet them where they're at. And it's funny because I've - since we've worked together, since you've been my mentor for my certification, I started working with Google in teaching something internally, what they call Foundations of Coaching. And so they're teaching their managers to be better coaches to their direct reports. And the thing I am now constantly working with them is that they ask open questions. Theoretically, they're open questions, but they're so leading. They're like an open question, but I want you to do the specific thing.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
And it's I'm leading you to this specific answer, and they're having an agenda. And It's funny because it's almost one of my biggest coaching areas of growth constantly reflected back to me as I have to give them feedback to say, yes, that isn't a leading question, but it seems like you're coming out that question with them wanting to do something really specific. How can we let them come to their own answers?
Dixie St. John
And it's hard. It's hard. And a lot of us who come to coaching, We've been the person that people have come to for advice or to be a shoulder or to be support for someone, and we wanna help. We're people who care. Right? And we've been rewarded for that in different settings for being the person who knows what to say in this - in certain situations. And so it can be so easy to fall into. If we could just get you to this point of realization, oh, I know that there's ah-ha moment coming up. Right? Let me just see if I could get you to that point.
Dixie St. John
I work with my mentees and my students, You know, around noticing if there's that sense of urgency. If something's coming up inside of you and you feel excited, right, or you feel urgent. If you're in that space, we're not giving attention to the client. Part of us is up in our own head, part of us is formulating our next question, part of us is, again, almost celebrating this so-called finish line that we think we're gonna get them over, and we're not there for them in their experience. So super important. I think that's so cool though that you've first of all, congratulations. That's an awesome thing that you're doing. But then you're seeing that mirror back, right, And that growth - that growth edge.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
Yeah. It's like, okay. Now when I'm in my next coaching session, am I coming in with an agenda? So this is helpful. Things to pull this out, I know that there are people who are listening who are coaches, who this could just be a great reminder for you. But for people who are thinking about working with coaches, if you're doing a discovery call or something, that might be something to notice. Like, do they feel present with you? Are they trying to force you into their very specific trajectory for growth, or are they meeting you where you're at? I'm wondering, Dixie, are there any other things that people should be looking for as they're determining whether or not a coach is a good fit? And even saying good fit makes it sound so binary, but it's a relationship and it's just like dating someone. They could be a great person and just not the right fit for you as a coach.
Dixie St. John
Yeah. So hopefully, you're going to have the opportunity for that discovery sessions. Sometimes, you know, it could be that maybe you're following someone, say, on social media or looking at their website, and you're kind of feeling into their energy. You want that energy resonance there. You know, how do you feel in their presence? Do you feel held? Do you feel that sense of being contained? Back to that situation around agenda, another way of looking at it is when I talk about container or holding space, that means that the ideal coach for you is not going to judge you, and they're not going to try to change you, and they're not going to shy away from your lived experience. They're gonna be there with you, holding space for that. So if you think about it, Taylor, I don't know if this has ever happened to you, but I know for myself, when I've ever, you know, shared in personal relationships around maybe something that's upsetting to me, and say maybe there's even emotion that's shared. Right? Or I'm struggling.
Dixie St. John
Most people will go in one of two directions. Either they're going to come toward you and they're gonna be solicitous, and they're going to be trying to quote, "make you feel better". Saying, you know, sometimes even horrible platitudes like, oh, this happened for a reason or it's gonna be okay. Not to say that you wouldn't be comforting, but, you know, Trying to make the feelings go away or the situation go away, or they're going to be off put or shut down by your upset. A coach that holds a container is going to be neither of those things. They're going to be able to be present with you without being ruffled by any of it. They're not gonna try to change the situation and make you feel better, but they're also not going to be in any way overwhelmed by it. So I think that's another good litmus test for if a coach can really hold that space for you and your situation.
Dixie St. John
The other thing is, does your prospective coach ask you how they can best work with you? Do they ask you questions about yourself? Do they say like, I will say this on my intake form. You know? Tell me about yourself. Tell me how to work best with you. Meaning, for example, somebody might say, so I really need you to hold me accountable. I'm the type of person that's gonna get wiggly and slippery. Right? And I need you to be able to keep me on track. Whereas another person might say, You know, based upon my background, I'm an introvert, I process differently. I'm gonna need some time to really be able to speak without interruption.
Dixie St. John
So I want that kind of level of detail if possible. I wanna meet folks where they are, and I wanna meet their needs in the coaching relationship.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
I think those are all great things for us to keep in mind. And it goes back to that skill set that you try to develop in coaches of being present. Like, is your coach present with you? Do they feel resonant with you? I would also - you mentioned something and this was kind of in passing, but that piece about like, are they just having platitudes? Are they spiritually bypassing? Are they something I would add to that is, are they able to see the fullness of who you are. And in some cases, acknowledge when they can't understand certain things. Like if you hold any type of identity that is not in the majority currently or in the majority of whatever context you're in and someone is not able to acknowledge where your identities and experiences differ, that can end up being so harmful. And so that might be a question. I'm speaking from my experience as a black woman, but you might ask, like, have you worked with clients who hold some of my identities? What's your experience been like that? How do you handle something I know when I was working on, Gateway Coaching, which was this idea for a company that I had, one of the questions I would ask coaches is how they're able to sit with people who have different experiences with them because, unfortunately, there are many coaches you are not able to do that and they end up harming more than they do help.
Dixie St. John
Absolutely. So much there, Taylor. All the yeses about that. Yes. I have worked with folks that are from other cultures, other identities, you know, in marginalized communities and things like that. And when I think the most important thing for a coach is first of all to acknowledge our own bias or biases. We all have them.
Dixie St. John
We all do. So getting clear around what those are instead of pretending they're not there. Now I would - that's my inner work to do as a coach. With my client, it's being humble from that space of knowing I don't know their experience. I haven't lived their life. But letting them know and calling that out and naming that if that is the case, you know, when I've worked with women of color, acknowledging I am a white woman working with you. I even talk about a power differential. Coach to client is a power differential.
Dixie St. John
Right? I call that out. If I'm a white woman working with a black woman, That's another whole level. Right? And so I acknowledge that, and then if I don't know something or if I don't feel like that this is, you know, something, I'll ask questions, you know, if I wanna know more about their experience. The other thing that's super important, And I know that coaches do this way too often, is in the quest to help people get unstuck or remove obstacles or feel differently or think differently or how wherever you're coming from - is we question people's experience. We're not supposed to do that. Right? It could be that someone's experience is true. We're not gonna question their thinking around something that's occurred in their life that's been traumatic or that is traumatic or the fact that they have to live in a space that isn't safe for them the way it is for us. We're not gonna go there.
Dixie St. John
We don't question circumstances or experiences. We don't question people's emotions. We don't try to do anything with those is what I mean. We're working on issues, lots of times, thinking that comes up for our clients, But obstacles that they tell us is a problem, not what we think is a problem. Does that make sense?
Taylor Elyse Morrison
Absolutely. It goes back to having the agenda. It's so easy for coaches to say, oh, I'm hearing what you say, and this is the problem. Let me ask a question about that versus one of the classic ways to start a coaching session is to ask, so what's on your mind today? What do you wanna explore? What problem can we make some progress on today? And it's all about the power being in the client's hand so that they can decide what they want to work on. But like you said, so often coaches, we like to superimpose our beliefs and our perspectives on what a problem is that they should be working on.
Dixie St. John
Yeah. Absolutely. So much all of that. We get in our blind spots if we, you know, say that there are situations where we've been there, done that. We always wanna watch for that because I will tell you from my experience, I don't know about you Taylor, but people that have been that are ex-something or others, ex-smokers or ex-this or ex-that, right, or they so often are the ones that are up in people's business about what they think that the peep the person should do. Right? Or born again with this or born again with that. So we have to watch that. We have to watch those blind spots.
Dixie St. John
When we find ourselves identifying with the situation that the client's in and we think, oh, well, Why can't they see, you know, what's going on here? Watching out for that. Instead, not just identifying the problem, but why is it a problem for them? What they're making it mean, how it's impacting them. We don't know. First of all, we don't know that it is a problem, so we wanna ask what if anything is problematic about this? If they don't say it is, so why is that a problem or what's problematic about that in going into their own interpretation, experience around the situation.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
This is so useful. And for people who are coaches who are listening, again, this is an opportunity for you to get a refresher. Thank you, Dixie, for being so generous with your experience. And for people who, in the future, are going to be looking at working with a coach, these are things that you can start to notice. Is the coach centering me and my experience, or is the coach constantly, in a way, almost making it about them, what they've been through, and now you just should follow along with them? I've got a couple more questions I wanna ask you, Dixie. So let's say that someone has gotten to the point, they've vetted a coach, they're in the midst of a coaching relationship. What can we be doing to get the most out of a coaching relationship?
Dixie St. John
So first of all, that's where hopefully your coach is inviting this, but even if they haven't said it yet, you wanna ask yourself, why am I here? Right? What am I trying to get out of the situation or not situation. What are they hoping to achieve within the coaching relationship, or you, what are you hoping to achieve? So you wanna be open about that to yourself and to your coach. You want to make sure again that your coach is asking you how best to work with you. You know, that's important that they're looking for that. You know what? You wanna do your work. You wanna be showing up for yourself. In that sense, self advocating.
Dixie St. John
Another thing is you want to be - this can be tricky as a client, but being okay with being uncomfortable is important. Learning how to be uncomfortable. You're not gonna come into a coaching situation all the time or a session and leaving feeling better necessarily. So being willing to be uncomfortable is also important. Anything you can think of, Taylor.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
Yeah. That willingness to be uncomfortable is certainly important. And I would say I can speak for myself and also I've seen that reflected. The more I get to engage with the Inner Workout Community is, we have so many people who tend to be what I call, like, self-aware overachievers. And so we can want to rush through our work and be like, okay. I got here. I got the insight. Let's move on.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
And sometimes it's because we don't wanna sit in the discomfort or sometimes it's because we're rushing, but, yeah, taking that time to really be in the work with this other person who's holding space for you is so important. You mentioned this in terms of the coach asking, are you offering what you need? I know I do really well with accountability, so that's something that's helpful for me and a coach. Also not being afraid to say, hopefully again, your coach is doing this, but if something didn't sit right with you in a session. Maybe it was a line of questioning or a direction that the conversation went. Being able to say that, and hopefully, it's really well received. And you might realize it after. I will often say to clients, like, feel free to give me feedback right now or if as you're processing it, you realize something didn't feel right, let me know so that I don't do that again. Like, some clients really love when I'm a little bit confronting and will call them out a little bit more. Other clients are really off put by that. And I try to engage based on what you tell me, but I can't know if something is crossing a line for you unless you let me know.
Dixie St. John
Absolutely. Yeah. So taking that self-responsibility for what works for you and what doesn't. You know? And even though you would be hopefully resonating with your prospective coach and have already figured that out.
Dixie St. John
It might not work. And being willing to terminate that relationship if it feels like it's not it's not serving you and not making that mean something about you. Right? Knowing that there's another coach out there that will meet that need or that can meet that need better.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
I love that. That's one of the key questions that I've come back to from the coach training is, what am I making this mean? And it's just so useful in interactions with other people and things with myself when I'm looking at data for the business. Like, what am I making this mean? Because I just so often am spinning up a story that doesn't objectively have to be there, and I could choose a different story if I wanted. So that's just an aside. I love that question - What am I making this mean?
Dixie St. John
I just love that question too, Taylor. It's a brilliant question. It goes into that, okay, what is this for you? Right? What is the story you're telling yourself? And it could be totally different than what I'm making it mean. So I use that one. That's one of my favorite coaching questions, actually.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
I love that. The last question I want to end on is coaching - it costs money and sometimes coaching isn't always in the budget. So what would you recommend if someone is interested in coaching, but they can't afford it right now?
Dixie St. John
Well, so first of all, often when a person comes to coaching, they're looking for a specific need. They have something that's troubling them, that's not working in their lives. Maybe there's that “what's next?” question. Whatever that season is for you, there's tons of online communities that are supportive around that particular problem. So there's always, you know, free resources and usually lots of good support that you can find out there. I would say if you're on social media, maybe start to follow some coaches that you would be interested in working with and get a feel for their energy even if you can't afford to hire them. So often coaches will have other offerings at different price points besides their coaching packages that you might be able to take advantage of. Or they might even have freebies on their website or resources out there that you can pull from.
Dixie St. John
The other thing is if there's a coach that you're really feeling resonant with or you're feeling pulled toward, Ask them if they have any kind of tiered pricing. Doesn't mean it's necessarily going to be on their website, but inquire, do you ever take pro-bono clients or do you have different pricing options? It could be that they do. And then I guess, you know, If not, ask them to refer you to someone. Ask them if they know anyone who does or ask them if they know of any resources in, around the situation that you're struggling with. If they're a good coach, the kind of coaches Taylor and I have been talking about, gonna be willing to do that. They're gonna be happy to guide you in the right direction. So, again, you know, for myself, for my own coaching, I don't want there to be a barrier to entry with working with me. So I try to have over the years, I've had, you know, various kinds of, you know, webinars or classes or products that are at much lower price points.
Dixie St. John
Frequently, I will comp somebody for a workshop that I'm doing or coaching sessions depending upon the situation and need. And that's something that I go around and just say all the time, but it's there, and I'm keeping that in my mind. So if somebody's coming to me and I hear them say to me, you know, I really wish that I could work with you, but I can't afford it, I'm making a note of that, you know? But, yeah, ask.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
Yeah. That's great. So look out for communities that are speaking to whatever you're struggling with. Start to follow people who are talking about that topic, coaches who you might like to work with. And if you're feeling really resonant, then reach out to them. And it seems that's something that we have in common is I'm constantly I mean, that's part of why we have the Inner Workout app is because I want there to always be resources for people at different price points. Like, you can listen to this conversation for free. The app is a lower cost.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
Working with me has to be a higher cost because I have, only have so much time to give. But I've done things on a sliding scale. Or sometimes, we'll do something that's group coaching and that can be lower cost. And so always trying to think of those options for people. And I think that goes back to us just having similar values around really knowing that coaching is such a powerful tool in thinking about all the things that we can do personally and professionally to make it more accessible to people. Lovely. I could talk to you all day. I just love getting to soak up the way that you think about coaching.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
Dixie, if people want to stay in touch with you and hear about the things that you are putting out into the world. Where can they stay in touch?
Dixie St. John
You can find me on Facebook. You can find me on Instagram. I am not doing the TikTok thing because I am just, I'm a little bit challenged in that one. But, again, just like I teach my mentees, I am my own unique type of person. I do not have a website and that doesn't mean you can't reach out to me. You can reach out and find me through email, dixiestjohn@gmail.com. If you have any questions I'd be happy to answer. And again, Social media.
Dixie St. John
I'm not there as much as I used to be because I'm following my essential self, and I do it when it feels good. But I'm there enough.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
Well, thank you. Thank you for sharing your time and sharing your wisdom with us.
Dixie St. John
It's been so much fun, and I'm so happy to see you again and all the cool stuff you're doing, let's stay in touch.
Taylor Elyse Morrison
Absolutely. Inner Warmup is a collaborative effort. It's hosted by me, Taylor Elyse Morrison. Danielle Spaulding provides production support, and it's edited by Carolina Duque. If you enjoyed this episode, share it with a friend. And if you're looking to continue your inner work, our free Take Care Assessment is a great place to start. On that note, take care.