In today's episode, Taylor is joined by her friends, Amelia and L'Oreal. They discuss being enneagram threes, their experiences with burnout and how they balance various responsibilities such as writing, motherhood, and business. They also discuss what their 'tells' are to nearing or reaching burnout.
Mentioned In The Episode:
Meet Today's Guests:
Amelia Hruby, PhD is a feminist author, educator, podcaster, and the founder of Softer Sounds, a podcast studio for entrepreneurs and creatives. Over the past decade, she’s been a university professor, a community organizer, and a radio DJ. She’s written a book (Fifty Feminist Mantras) and hosted many podcasts including Fifty Feminist States, Off the Grid: Leaving Social Media Without Losing All Your Clients, and my tiny tarot practice. She’s also the cofounder of the Lifestyle Business League with Taylor Elyse Morrison.
L’Oreal Thompson Payton is an award-winning journalist whose work has been featured in several national outlets. Her debut book, Stop Waiting for Perfect, will be published by BenBella Books in August 2023.
Connect with Amelia Hruby:
Connect with L’Oreal Thompson Payton:
You're listening to Inner Warmup where your inner work begins. I'm Taylor Elyse Morrison, creator of Inner Workout and author of the book, also called Inner Workout. And you as always are our expert guest. Thanks for being here today.
As we near the end of this season on burnout, I'm so excited. I can't wait to introduce you to two of my actual friends, L’Oreal Thompson Payton and Amelia Hruby. You'll hear more about them in the episode as they introduce themselves. For those of you who've been following along, you know that this season exists because the process of bringing my book into the world burned me the heck out, it burned me out. And it was really hard for me to admit that and to navigate my own burnout. Shameless plug, if you haven't pre ordered the book yet, please preorder it. Pre-orders make a huge, huge difference. And your support would just mean the world to me.
Back to L'Oreal and Amelia, these two have been sources of support and inspiration as I have navigated my own journey, my journey of burnout, my journey as a writer and an author. And this conversation was honestly what I needed to hear a few months ago. So we recorded it and now we're sharing it with you. Hopefully it meets you exactly at the moment that you need it to. Grab a drink, maybe something warm, grab your journal and keep listening to join the strong friends support group. Friends, I am so excited to have this conversation. I have been looking forward to it. This is probably the highlight of my work week this week. I obviously know both of you but the listeners don't know you yet. So who are you personally? Who are you professionally? L'Oreal? We'll start with you.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
Thank you so much for having me. My name is L'Oreal. Yes, like the makeup. Personally, I am a writer. But that's also professionally. So it's both right. I am a mom of a one year old girl named Violet. And I'm a wife, sister, daughter, friend. All that good stuff. Enneagram three, wing two for those of you who know that Scorpio Sun, Libra rising and Aquarius moon. What else can I say? I have a new book coming out next year. It's called Stop Waiting For Perfect. And I'm really excited about it. And I'm excited to chat with you all today.
Taylor Morrison
Yay. We're so excited to have you. People who are listening, you couldn't see it but we both did a happy dance when L'Oreal started talking about her book. Yeah, it's exciting. And Amelia, go ahead and introduce yourself.
Amelia Hruby
Hi, friends. I'm Amelia Hruby. I personally live in Lincoln, Nebraska with my partner and our cat and our dog. I am an Aries Sun, Capricorn rising, Gemini Moon, Enneagram three, Human Design generator, ENFJ, I think if we're just doing all the personality tests. Professionally, I am a lot of things. I've published a book, I've hosted a lot of podcasts. Right now I spend most of my time running my company Softer Sounds, which is a feminist podcast studio for entrepreneurs and creatives. And I just launched a business with Taylor herself called the Lifestyle Business League. So we're now in community with a lot of other fantastic business owners and facilitating that space. But most days, you'll just find me sitting at my desk, editing audio, sending emails, and then hanging out with my family. I think that's it for now.
Taylor Morrison
So I wanted to chat with both of y'all specifically because, as we've mentioned, we've got a strong enneagram three vibe in the virtual room right now. We're all strong friends. I'm really truly inspired by your abilities to take care in ways that I personally struggle to take care. Amelia. I remember I think it was last spring, you told me about taking these no meetings weeks, and my mind was just blown. So can you tell me a little bit more about how that came to be?
Amelia Hruby
Yeah definitely. So it really came to be for my own personal well being. As someone who runs my own business, and particularly I run a service based business, right like I edit audio and I do podcast strategy with clients and I realized about six months in to running my business that if I just left my booking link open, I would just get booked up constantly. And then I would not have any time to work on the business because I was so busy working in the business, I wouldn't have time to like run my errands during the day, which is when I like to do them as an entrepreneur. I run my own schedule. So I was like, I want time to do these things. And I also need a lot of time, because I'm also an editor like that's really deep focus time. And I need a lot of time during the week or the month to do that work for clients. So I started no meetings weeks, because there were so many pulls on my calendar, just like everybody wanting time, and I had to clear out that space to rest, to catch up, to be in my own process. And so now, I really try one week a month to do no meetings. Sometimes, what I've learned in that process, I'm not perfect at it. What I've noticed the second half of this year is no meetings weeks are life saving, but also I tend to plan trips during them. So I'm just traveling the whole week, which is not the rest part of the equation that I always want, or need. But really, it just came from an like, I guess if I go a level deeper, I did a lot of work when I was launching my business to figure out like what was most important to me. And time freedom is one of the things that makes me, like I need it in my life. If there are too many people who want my time, I get really resentful, and really, like mad like, I really get in the space of like, ugh a client wants to talk to me? How dare they desire to talk to me. Like they've paid me for that time, but I just like, if I don't have enough time freedom, I get so resentful and so upset, and so overwhelmed. And so no meetings weeks were a way to reclaim time freedom, at least one week, a month where I can spend my time how I want to spend my time. And then yeah, some months it's great and I rest and I feel so good. And other months, I like go on a wildly over booked trip. And then I'm exhausted. And I realize I need two no meetings weeks. But it's been a really good practice for me. So I hope other people will feel inspired to at least put some no meetings days on your calendar, even if you can't do a week or honestly like a whole month. I can't imagine that for myself. But let's like make it possible for each other.
Taylor Morrison
I love that. Yeah, I felt at the when you first talked about it. I was like, okay, no meetings weeks, that's not possible for me. So I didn't know meetings days, but going forward for next year, or while we're recording this in 2022. This year, by the time you're listening to it, I'm trying to have two no meetings weeks on a calendar month. So like half of the month is no meetings, half of the month is meetings. And there are a couple like with people in my team that I do meet weekly that are like short and sweet meetings. But like, I get to choose who I'm meeting with, rather than, again, the open booking calendar, which can, I had never voiced it that way. But I can feel that way to where it's like everyone has access to me, but then I don't have time for myself. And it can get frustrating. And going back to the Human Design generator stuff. Like our theme is frustration. And I definitely can get to that frustration place when I don't feel like I have control over my time.
Amelia Hruby
Yeah, 100%. I also will just add that, yeah, during no meetings weeks, I've learned to differentiate like I will schedule meetings that are for me, like sometimes in a no meetings week, I will meet with my coach, or I will meet with my assistant. But those are like choices I'm making. And there are things that are supportive for me. So like things I can show up to in my pajamas because I've paid other people to be around for me, instead of me feeling like I need to be like dressed and ready to support someone else. It's just my way of taking time to fill my own cup. And I totally agree, like, calendar links are beautiful and wonderful and create a lot of ease. But I feel like everyone who's listening to this must have had an experience of like, somebody booking through your link that you're like, Oh, I was not actually planning on like having a meeting that day. Or like, you know, the day you have no meetings and then somebody books like a 15 minute call right in the middle of your day and you're like, uh now, I have to organize my whole day around this one 15 minute meeting. So yeah, I'm also thinking about like, I love my no meetings weeks, and I'm trying to think through for you know, months and years ahead like how do I use my calendar link in a way that feels a little less like people can claim my time anytime? And I don't have an answer for that yet, but I'm still working with it.
Taylor Morrison
Yeah, I don't have an answer either. And if anyone listening does have an answer let us know because sounds like me and Amelia could both use it. L'Oreal I don't want to leave you out of the conversation you have inspired me as well. So you have one of my favorite emails to receive that comes out on Wednesdays. And sometimes you take pauses from your weekly email newsletter, which is something I've never considered, I literally had just never thought that that was a possibility. Until I saw you do it. And I was like, oh, yeah, like it can be weekly and you can take breaks, those are not mutually exclusive. Why is that pause important to you?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
I mean, I'll be honest, it was just, I hit a wall. I needed to this year in 2022, especially because of writing my book, which back when I was doing full time freelancing, there was more of that time freedom that Amelia mentioned, where I had to work on various projects that interest me and kind of keep up with everything. I think I paused it the first time when I went on maternity leave last year. So in fall of 2021, I took a three month break from the newsletter, and then came back at the top of 2022. And then at a couple of different points during this year, when I was in the throes of working on my manuscript, when I had to get the first draft to my editor, and then when she got them back with edits, the developmental edits, and then most recently, with the line edits, I was just like, listen, something's gotta give. Once I started working this summer, full time, I forgot to mention earlier, my day job is with Fortune Magazine, I'm their health and wellness reporter, one of their health and wellness reporters, and it's a lot, you know, trying to raise a tiny human and work a nine to five and also work on this book. And I was very anxious at first because the perfectionist me is like, girl, you said you were going to put out a weekly newsletter, it has to be weekly. And also, it's important for me to try as best I can, I certainly have a long way to go with this, but practicing what I preach. So if I'm telling everyone else to take care for themselves, to pause, to slow down when you need, to reevaluate your priorities, to you know, try to not burn out then I need to model that behavior. It's something my therapist tells me a lot, especially with my daughter, like she's watching, she's observing. And so what do you want her to pick up on. And I'm so fortunate with the community that I've built through my newsletter that my readers are super understanding, they totally get it, they're 100% supportive. And that also makes it a little easier for me to step bac. I announce it, of course, I don't want to just leave anyone, high and dry. Because I know for a lot of people, that is something they look forward to every week, every Wednesday morning. So I communicate ahead of time, like, Hey, I, you know, have book edits coming up so I'm going to need to take this month off. I've done it with vacations before but that's like, a week that I'll miss and I let people know. But this year, taking weeks off at a time, a month, I think last month I put out in November, like I'm done for the rest of the year, like I just I have reached a limit, I need to take this break so I can come back. And not even like bigger and better. But like just so I can like come back as my whole self in the following year. I paused it for the month of December so I can spend more time with my family. So I can kind of slow down around the hustle and bustle of the holidays. And that's the beauty I think of being entrepreneurs, of being creative in that space is like we make our own rules. And so we can decide what it is that we do and we don't do and when we do it and how we want to do it. And by showing up in that way we then model for other people, new ways of being that perhaps they hadn't considered before or didn't think that those rules, you know, applied or that we could take those kinds of liberties. And so that's yeah, been important to me just to make it a more sustainable process. Because I love writing my newsletter. It's one of the things that is just like, because my day job is, you know, there are stories that I have to write and the book is something that I have to do, I want to do it but I also have to do it. And the newsletter something that is just kind of it's just me writing to people and expressing myself and people tend to, they like it and I don't want to hate it or go resentful because I'm doing it now out of obligation. So those pauses allow me to stop, put the you know, gas back in my own tank so that I can pour out into other people when I do come back on.
Taylor Morrison
All of that so many head nods and snaps like I loved what you said about it's not even and I, y'all can tell me if this is just a me thing. But I do think a lot of times I try and trick myself into resting by being like, but it's really productive. Yeah, like the end goal is I'm being more productive by resting, but like you just said, it's not even just so we can come back bigger and better, it's so that we can come back in our fullness as our whole selves. That is a word I wrote that down. Don't be surprised if you come visit me in my office. And that's written somewhere. I needed that reminder today.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
I love it.
Taylor Morrison
And you just mentioned, so burnout is something that you've struggled with L'Oreal, Amelia, I know from offline, that it's something that you've struggled with as well. This whole season is about burnout. I'm having this conversation about burnout because I wrote this book about self care. And I really struggled to admit to myself, this time around that I was burned out, because kind of like you were saying L'Oreal is like, well, I talk about this stuff. So I should be able to model not being burned out. And that means not admitting that I have reached the point of burnout for myself. It looks a little bit different for all of us. I mean, by the time you get to the place where you're really, really burned out, there tend to be some themes of symptoms. But the path to burnout, those like slow down signs are a little bit different for everyone. So I'm curious to hear from each of you. What are some of your tell tale signs or even just one of your telltale signs that burnout is on the horizon? You're getting a little bit too close to it.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
I can start, I think, and it's really timely that we're having this conversation today of all days, because last week, I experienced an anxiety attack my therapist told me afterward. My husband and one of my best friends had a theory because I just out of the blue nausea came out of like nowhere and I was vomiting, I was just like, what is happening, I was stressed out about a work assignment, I had line edits due for the book again, and everything just kind of hit me all at once and it manifested itself physically, which I hadn't experienced before. I've had in the past, like a panic attack and heart palpitations and that sort of thing. But the nausea and upset stomach and vomit, I was just like this is, why do our bodies do that. And my therapist was like, it makes sense. There's this high level of cortisol that's building up in your body, it has to come out some kind of way. And it was true, I was running myself into the ground - going to sleep past midnight, waking up at five before the baby to work on the book and then logging on to work. And it was just like, grueling. And that was a physical manifestation of stress and burnout, anxiety and all the things and leading up to it. Your question about the path to burnout, I find when it takes me a really long time to do menial tasks. I'm a writer I've mentioned several times now and so like it comes for me, pretty easily. When it doesn't, that's one of the tip offs for me that like Hey, girl, maybe you're you know, doing too much. And to be fair, doing the most is like my default setting. Like that's how I came out of the womb, I don't know any other way. And when I have reached that point of no return it's obvious when you know it takes too long to send the email or the words aren't coming or I reread the same paragraph over and over and over again. And things aren't clicking. When I don't feel like working out because it is something that brings me so much joy and not for the vanity of it. I like, that's part of my mental health, to log into my peloton to do yoga, whatever that you know, taking little mental health walks to and from daycare, when it's not below freezing. When I don't find the joy or look forward to that, and I'm just kind of going through the motions of my day or my routine or I'm not doing my routine at all. That's another sign of burnout, when I've kind of neglected all of these guardrails that I sort of have in place to support me and my mental health when I neglect them. That for me is a sign that my mental health is like suffering. And it also is leading to burnout, having too much time, or not enough time rather, as Amelia mentioned before, too many people wanting your time because I have a bad habit of saying yes to everything and everybody which I am also actively working on. And so all of those are clues for me like when I get that calendar invite and I feel resentful. I was in a leadership program a few years ago and the facilitator had mentioned that resentment is information for us and so I'm getting better now at recognizing that and trying to prevent them in the same place having no meeting days or blocking off the calendar or putting up away messages or on Slack I'll tell my coworkers Hey, I'm taking a mental health day just to try to prevent that from happening and reclaim my time and my power and my mental health and that aspect as well, like my peace. I need to reclaim my peace.
Taylor Morrison
So many heads nods, all of this. I just, I'm feeling very seen in this conversation. I hope that that is the case for everyone else, that when you're hearing this, you're like, oh, yeah, me too. Okay. It's not just me. Amelia, I want to hear what are some of your telltale signs?
Amelia Hruby
Yeah, I so much of what L'Oreal said really resonates for me as well. I think that the biggest telltale sign for me, I don't even know if it's a sign. But I know I'm burnout when I don't want to do any of the things I enjoy doing. And this is kind of a human design generator thing as well, like, I have so much energy to do everything I love. As L'Oreal put it, like came out of the womb doing the most that I also feel the same way. And then sometimes that just like mysteriously dries up, and I am like parched, empty, I haven't, I don't want to do anything, I don't want to work, I don't want to read I don't want to watch films, I don't want to take walks, I don't want to take a bath. And there's just like, it's like, there's nothing left to give. And then when I get to that point, I'm like way burnout. And as you mentioned, Taylor, offline last week, I sent you a message, a voice message, it was basically like I am so burnout. And I don't know where I'm gonna find the next like four days of work, or five days of work, before I can log off for the holidays. And those are definitely those moments. I wish I was, honestly, I wish I was better at knowing the signs leading up to them. My pattern tends to be like, I love my work so much. And I love all the things I do and I will go into them so hard. And I will like work a 12 hour day, you know, I don't have kids at home, I don't have, my partner does all the cooking and all the domestic stuff. So I've kind of built a life where I can go all in on my passions and projects and work when I want to. But what I'm learning is that that actually really doesn't serve me. Like in the moment, I think it feels good to like go at it for 12 hours. And then I'm like suddenly burnt out and I'm like, why am I so burnt out? And it's like, yeah, you worked 30 hours in the first two and a half days of this week. Like, of course like I'm I'm learning that I have to really kind of be more attentive to and careful with my energy because it's not unlimited, even though sometimes I believe it is. And I burn myself out by overworking. So what I'm working on is pacing myself. That's one of the things I really want to explore this year is just thinking about like, okay, maybe I can keep going right now. But if I do that I'm going to injure my energy, much like you would injure your body if you push too hard. And so I'm going to pause and step back and save this for another day. Yeah, that doesn't quite answer your question. I don't totally know how to tell that I'm getting burnout. But I find myself there regularly. So I'm trying to backtrack and figure it out and reverse what got me to those moments. And I think overworking is what gets me there.
Taylor Morrison
Yeah, I appreciate that answer. And the follow up question that I had for y'all is how do you course correct. And so it sounds like for you, Amelia, you're trying to course correct by noticing the tendency to overwork the tendency to think that you have unlimited energy and kind of reining yourself in maybe a little bit more than might feel natural to you.
Amelia Hruby
Yeah, that feels true. Yeah, just stepping back and pacing myself and remembering that like, just because I have energy left at the end of a workday like I can use it to do other things in my life. I can put the energy into other areas and like very gladly, so but I think that's been for me one of the challenges of moving to remote work and working for myself and working from home is there aren't those guardrails like, L'Oreal used that language earlier. Like, I don't have to go home from work, I don't have to go pick someone up. So like I'm really trying to figure out next year how to build or in this year how to build more of that in so that I can course correct a little more by just stepping away from working and putting more of my energy into other areas of my life.
Taylor Morrison
I just had a conversation with Matt, my husband, my partner. And it was so funny because it seemed so profound to me. But I was basically just describing having a hobby. I was like, Matt, I do so well when I have projects, but there are projects that aren't related to work. And then I paused and I was like, oh, a hobby. I do well when I have a hobby. So lately, what I've been enjoying is doing a lot of, like we're redoing our room. And in the next hopefully week or so I'm like building closet doors from scratch. That's been really good for me. Another thing that I'm trying to and this is partly with ADHD as well is like it can be so hard for me to like keep up with all of the tidying and things but if I know that I'm having someone over, I will get that done. So I'm going to try hosting like some type of event every month, whether it's like a dinner party or game night, or all of these different things to give me something to put my energy into. And I think I realized this from my birthday party. I had so much fun planning a birthday party, actually L'Oreal and I, we had twin birthday parties, because we both had Renaissance themed, Beyonce Renaissance themed birthday parties. And like having that to put my energy into was so good for me. And I was like, I could just do that every month, I could be like, we're having a pasta party. We're having a murder mystery night. So that's my, my experiment for this coming year, we'll see how, if it ends up being monthly, I'm going to try doing it once. That's another thing I realized, I have an idea for something and then I want to commit to it for a regular set of time. And it's like I could just do it once and see whether or not I like it. So I'm gonna do it once and then maybe it'll be monthly. L'Oreal, how do you course correct when you feel yourself on this path to burnout or maybe already burned out?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
I'm just nodding along because I'm like, I know, we joked earlier about us all being the same person. But like hearing your responses is just like, yeah, yes, yes, yes and because same, I need a hobby. I don't have an hobby that I haven't monetized. And I'm still, I remember a friend asking me at the end of 2018 or 2019. I believe, like, I hear all of your goals. But what are you doing for fun? And I'm like, fun what is that? How do you fun? Like, can I get that off of Amazon? I'm not sure I understand. Because that's just how I'm wired. Like, everything's a project, everything's a side hustle. Even when I went to do yoga teacher training, or taking yoga, you know, I love yoga. And then during the pandemic, I got ads for yoga teacher training. And I was like, yes, I must do this. And now I'll become a yoga teacher, in addition to everything else that I'm doing. And it's just like, girl sit down, you're doing way too much. It's literally sitting down, is one of the things I've been trying to course correct. It was last week, or maybe now it was two weeks ago, because yeah, it was before the anxiety attack. But I had told my manager, I was like, I need to take a mental health day. Because if I don't be proactive, and do that, I will have to be reactive and take a sick day at some point. And I would much rather like enjoy my time off. And so I did that. But in true enneagram three tendencies, I made a to do list for my mental health day. Now granted, the first item on there was to sleep in and then I wanted to watch the Harry and Megan documentary. But then I had a whole list of errands and everything that I wanted to do. And I'm so grateful that when the day came, and I started to watch the documentary, I was like, I'm just gonna lie here, I'm just gonna hang out on the sofa all day, the Christmas tree is on. And I have a cozy blanket, and I'm gonna watch all three episodes of the first part of this documentary, and I'm going to gasp, I'm going to do nothing. For people like us who tend to do the most, the exact opposite of that, and doing the least, doing nothing, is how I'm trying to counteract that tendency to go hard at all times, because my husband Jeff is complete opposite. And he one time had told me he's like, it's almost like you're allergic to whitespace on your calendar. And naturally, I was offended, because I was like, How dare you read me for such filth. But he was right, and I have this tendency to want to fill all of my downtime. And granted, this was before our daughter was born. So now I like see the whitespace and I'm like, Oh, thank God. But even then, you know, it's like, well, you know, we want to take her to Christkindlmarket, and we want to do this and we want to make memories, we want and and and and. And it's like for the first time now I understand when the flight attendant tells you to put your oxygen mask on first. Because I get it, I think now as a mom especially I'm like, oh my like natural instinct is to want to save her, I gotta save my baby. And I can't do that if I don't take care of myself first. And getting back to what my therapist had told me about modeling that behavior. I'm like, do I want her to be a perfectionist? Do I want her to grow up and feel like she has to achieve and that's tied to her self worth. Now, also, it shouldn't take that, you know, having a child for me to have that revelation. And also, you know, this is the season of life that I'm in right now. And that's something that's very top of mind for me. And so I try to keep that in the back of my mind. You know, even though she's only 14 months, she is observing our behavior. She had my notepad the other day and took a pen and was trying to write and, you know, if I'm on my laptop, she comes over like what are you doing? And I also don't want her to see me on my laptop all the time, because I'm constantly working. So I'm grateful, I guess in that sense that I have this little, barely two foot reminder kind of paddling around, and watching everything that I do to remind me to sit down, to take a break, to be present, to pause to spend time with the people that I love more than the work that I'm doing. Because like Amelia, I love what I do. I was born to be a writer, I enjoy it. Most days, sometimes it's really hard. And I'm like, Why did I choose this life? Or why did it choose me. But you know, like, a job is not going to fulfill you in everything. And so it's important that I pour into these other aspects of my life and these other people in my life. but most of all that I pour into myself, first and foremost.
Taylor Morrison
Yeah, we've talked about the role that other people play in our burnout in different aspects throughout this conversation. And I'd love to add in some of the support that other people can offer us, like we've kind of talked about the resentment that we can have when people are pushing us too far, or we've all talked about support that we've had from our partners. L'Oreal, I love that you are able to bring in this perspective of motherhood, I don't know if that's ever a journey that I'll be on. But I know that people listening are on that journey. And even I'm like, let me just absorb some of those, even for like my nieces and nephews or for the younger folks who are watching me. I actually just had this happen with a family member who I was talking to them. And I was like, please reach out to me at any time. And their first response was like, Well, I see you on Instagram, and you're always so busy. So I feel like you can't, I can't reach out to you. And I was like, Oh, wow, I don't want that to feel like it's the case. So that's actually a good reminder to me, even as someone who's not a mother, there are people in my life who like I could be a source of support too. And they feel like I wouldn't have time for them. That was an aside, that was in a nice little ADHD ambling about insight into my brain where I'm like, Oh, I meant to totally ask you a question about how you ask for help. And now we're talking about a conversation that I had over Thanksgiving dinner. Anyway, so sometimes we can struggle to ask for help. And again, I'm saying we because I'm assuming that we are very similar people. But at any point, you can call me out and be like, No, this is not true to my story. I would love to actually have us brag a little bit. What is a time recently that you have asked for help? And what prompted you to ask for that help? Because, for me, at least, that can be a hard thing to do, to admit that I need support and I can't in fact, do everything on my own.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
Sure, I can start here. I hate to be the mom friend of the group. But I feel like so much of my perfectionist tendencies have come to a head with parenting that it's been a crash course and like a masterclass and unlearning perfectionism because strong friend, like I said, enneagram wing two, like literally helping is in my DNA. So I am very keen on helping others, and very reluctant in asking for and accepting help myself until recently. Because everything just kind of like, came to a head and a boiling point. And it was one night when Jeff was at an event, I was responsible for putting the baby down myself, like usually we tag team it and I nurse her, he puts her to sleep, like does the rest of the bedtime routine. And little mama was not having any of that because she was like, I know you're not my dad and I'm not doing this. And like two hours later, he came home, both of us were crying out of frustration and overwhelm and just like all the things and the next morning I saw another mom friend who had talked about doing renovations to her home or husband was gone for a two week business trip. And I was like, jealous and angry and frustrated and sad and all the things because like here she was for two weeks and was fine, seemingly fine. And I couldn't survive two hours alone with the baby like, I just felt so inadequate and like, I just, I'm a bad mom, like I can't do this. What is wrong with me? And Jeff was like, you know she has help, she has family that lives nearby, she maybe has paid help, you know, in the form like a nanny or like other caretakers, someone for her children, like, you're not seeing that part. And I got on Instagram. and was like ranting about this, this parenting being very hard. And one of my friends DM'd me and was like, Do you need me to come over this weekend? Like, do you need help this weekend? And I asked Jeff, I was like, Merca wants to know if we need help this weekend. He's like, we need help every weekend. Like let's be honest. You know? There's only one of her like the baby. And there's two of us, but like we are sometimes out matched. And I was like, yes, yes. So it's not an example of asking for help, because I want to be honest that that is something that I'm still struggling with, being proactive and asking for it. But I am getting better at receiving it. And so when people, like my friend are like, hey, I can come over and watch her for a few hours. We were still home, we were just like reforming, transforming the living room from like, Thanksgiving to Christmas and getting the tree up and everything. We just needed another set of hands, we needed someone to entertain the baby while we, you know, move furniture around and do all this other stuff. And I've had another friend be like, Can I drop off some tea? I know you're sick. Can I drop this off for you? And I'm like, yes. So I'm still practicing. And I read a really good newsletter recently. Anne Helen Petersen's Culture Study that talked about building a community of care, and being proactive and sharing with our friends before, you know, shit hits the proverbial fan about what we need, and how they can support us with like, tangible, actual practical things that they can do and sharing that with them ahead of time so that when we need the support, they have a document that they can reference. And it makes it all a little bit easier on everyone. I haven't gotten there yet. But when people offer help, instead of the default being like, oh, no, I've got it, or I'm fine. Or thank you so much. Because you know, I don't want to be seen as weak or vulnerable or incompetent somehow. I am getting better at saying yes actually, that would be great. Yes, thank you so much. Thank you. Yes, like, can you come over on Saturday. And so that's like, the baby step for me and asking for help is first receiving the help when it's being offered.
Taylor Morrison
Yeah, and that's not even a baby step. That's a huge step. So I just want to applaud you in that and being able to receive that. And what you said about having like a document, for some reason that made me think of Abbott Elementary when Janine is sick, and she has this whole document of like, here's how exactly..
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
A whole binder
Taylor Morrison
..to do everything. I am not at that point, either. But I love the idea of having some, I mean, we talk about this, as business owners like having documentation for like SOPs, which is essentially like, how you can support doing this task in a business and I hadn't really thought about, how can I tell my parents or whoever, like people who are watching my dog or people who are going to come in and water my plants. So that's an interesting thing for me to explore. Thanks for that. Amelia, what about you?
Amelia Hruby
I also read that newsletter. And honestly, when she got to the part where she was like, you could make a forum and you could all just put your needs in there. And I was like, Absolutely not. That sounds horrifying to me. And I reflect I have reflected on that. Because normally, when I'm that allergic to something, it's precisely the medicine that I need. So I'm aware of that dynamic in my life. And yeah, you know, I think I'm gonna ramble my way through a few thoughts here, because I was trying to come up with examples of asking for help. I think what I've actually gotten better at this year is just sharing with people when I am struggling. I definitely think I tend to cultivate a strong friend energy around myself. I'm really capable of seeming good all the time. And that's been exacerbated by the fact that I moved, like, out of, not physically with my community anymore. So I used to live in Chicago and have a ton of friends there and like a real local community. And then I moved to Nebraska, where I live close to my family now. But I would say like, I love my family, they're very supportive. But I don't know that we have the same type of like, emotional honesty, or like really share our needs with each other all the time. So it's been like interesting that I think so often, the way that our needs get met is like, people notice that something is not going well. And then they step in like to offer. And what I've learned this year is that like, if things aren't going well, I actually have to like raise a flag, like I have to tell people and I have to reach out and be like, Hey, this is like, I'm in a rough period right now. And I could use support. And so that's what I've been working on. And it's happened a few times this year, it's been a year of a lot of grief and conflict in my personal life. And I've been trying to learn how to share that at first by like reaching out to specific people. And then more recently, a little bit more publicly, you know, I wrote like an email to my business list this fall that was like, hey, like, this year has sucked. One of my friends died, my dog died. I've got a lot of family stuff going on. And I've been writing these business emails that are like, our revenues going up and things are great. And I'm making podcasts and I love my clients and that's all true, but also I'm like really navigating a lot of hardship behind the scenes and so, I don't know. I didn't have an ask for that. And I really do struggle sometimes to ask for things. I have a lot of fear around being disappointed. I have a lot of fear around asking and then being told no, or support not showing up. And so it's, I'm really trying to step through that in my relationships. But the first step has been kind of similar to the story L'Oreal told, just like, being willing to put out there that I'm not doing well, and then receiving the support that shows up. And the more I'm like, bolstered by that, I think the more like trust I have in different relationships, that I could ask for things. So and also honestly, sometimes, it's really delightful what people do, like, if I don't act, like sometimes I ask for something specific, like mom, will you come watch our dog for an evening so JJ and I can get out of the house when one of our dogs was really sick this fall. But other times, like I have mentioned already, I messaged Taylor to be like, I'm super burnt out. And then Taylor was like, I'll send you a pump up track every morning until it's the holiday season. And you have and it's been amazing. Like I love it. They've been like all sorts of songs. And it has really like changed the tenor of my days. So I also just wanted to thank you for that on the pod and just highlight the like surprise and delight that comes when people like offer you the support that they can. And I think it's really beautiful.
Taylor Morrison
So many good things shared there. And what I appreciate in both of your answers was it was like, actually, I'm still not great at asking for help. But this is the measure that I'm doing so far, which is still so much further along than doing everything yourself and feeling like you're perfectly okay. Something that has been fun for me in giving Amelia these pump up songs is that like today's song was Kiss by Prince because I'm trying to make it songs that you wouldn't necessarily expect all the time. But then I was dancing around my bathroom, brushing my teeth to that song. And then I'm like coming into the room. Matt was still asleep, and like woke him up by dancing. And so it ended up having this ripple effect of being like, hopefully something that was healing and supportive for you, Amelia, but also ended up adding a lot of joy and delight into my day and into Matt's day too. So it's just cool. Like, it's such a reminder that we are interconnected. And when we have this reciprocity, like we are served as well. Another thing that's just coming to mind, because when I reflect on this, it's like oo, yeah, I'm not great at asking for help. The telling people is important. I had a situation recently, my anxiety was on like 25, it was a lot. And Matt was going out of town. And I was just really nervous because I can get into these places where I'm almost frozen in anxiety. And so like talking with him about it, talking with my parents, my backup plan was like, if it feels out of control, I can go to my parents. And thankfully it ended up subsiding. But being able to tell my parents, hey, this is something that's going on. Both of my parents checking in, I'm pretty close with my parents, I talk to my mom, at least once a day normally. But she like instead of waiting till after the workday, called me beforehand to check in. And those types of things and just telling people, yes, this is what's going on. And even just seeing that they cared to remember was was huge for me. Man, this is just exactly the conversation I wanted to have. And even better. I'm so grateful to both of you for your candor. Before we close it out, if there is one reflection question that you could offer up to the strong friends who are listening, what is something that you'd like for them to noodle on, to journal on, just to sit in silence with? What would that question be?
Amelia Hruby
I think what's coming to mind for me is, it's not a question. But I guess like a summation of my thoughts, is that I've just really been embracing the strength and softness. And I instead of being the strong friend, I'm trying to look for places that I can soften everywhere I can. And also that, I don't mean this to sound harsh, I'm saying it to myself, but like there's not really any glory in being the strong friend, like, relationships grow stronger, because you reach out, because you practice that vulnerability, because you share. And so I think the more we can like break down this idea of the strong friend, the more we can release the like hyper individuality of our culture. That's what will actually make us stronger friends, not like refusing to rely on each other. So that's where I'm headed. I'm softening and I am sharing and I invite others to do the same if that feels aligned for them.
Taylor Morrison
I love that. And to like, add that into a question that you might ask, Where can you soften? Who can you start to share with? Those might be some good starting points. L'Oreal, what about you? What reflection question or just general reflection statement would you offer?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
I've been thinking about that, because it's such a good question and what it means to not only be the strong friend, but in my case, also kind of like the strong black woman. And I go back to, I think it was a question, I forget who came up with it, but it was like, who did you need when you were younger, and being that person for yourself, and kind of think about what that means to be some, be that person for the world and the people around us, but for your younger self, your softer self, and that's something that I'm still working on. I think having Violet kind of put it at the forefront for me because she's here every day. And I see her and I am trying to model healthier behavior in that regard. And I don't want her to grow up with that pressure of having to be the strong black woman and be the strong friend. And so embracing and welcoming that softness in my life and being not only for her, but for a younger L'Oreal like who does five year old me, need me to be, 15 year old me and even 25 year old me is definitely a softer version who wasn't so hard on myself, I think as a strong friend, too, we have a tendency to be really critical of ourselves. And so just yeah, being who are younger, softer selves needed us to be and embracing that, going back to our childhood and seeing like what made us happy, what brought us joy, and incorporating more of that into our present adult lives, I think would do us a lot of good.
Taylor Morrison
Thank you for that! Y'all, thank you so much for having this conversation. It was exactly, even if zero people listen to this podcast, which is not going to be the case, thank you to everyone who's listening, but like, this was what I needed at this exact moment. Where can people find you and continue to be in conversation with you? Amelia we'll start with you.
Amelia Hruby
Yeah, it was also the conversation I needed. So thank you, Taylor. Thank you, L'Oreal. People can find me online at ameliahruby.com. You can find my podcast studio at softersounds.studio. And then I do host a few podcasts. So if you want to listen to me talk about leaving social media, you can find me at Off the Grid: Leaving Social Media Without Losing All Your Clients. If you want to listen to me explore tarot, you can listen to my podcast My Tiny Tarot Practice. And I also have a podcast about podcasting called The Softer Cast. I'm not on social media at all. So find me on the websites or on the pod feed.
Taylor Morrison
Thanks Amelia. What about you L'Oreal?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
Yeah, I am everywhere at ltinthecity on Twitter and Instagram mainly. And my website ltinthecity.com where you can sign up for my weekly motivational newsletter when it's not on hiatus. And where I will also be dropping the cover and pre order link for my book Stop Waiting For Perfect, early in 2023
Taylor Morrison
Yay. Thank you so much to both of you. Thank you so much to everyone for listening and take care.